All-in EV at Ongame

[Toniii]

Can't get All-in EV work at Ongame at Graphs section...

[kraada]

This will be fixed in our next beta release - until recently OnGame did not included mucked hands in its hand history files and as such we could not calculate all-in EV for hands from that site.

[nanjamonja]

Not true. The all in ev-graph has stopped working since the latest PT beta. It has worked perfectly fine for Ongame (for the Betsson skin at least) as long as I've used it, which is about two years.

[kraada]

There was internal confusion over which sites did and did not show mucked cards. There was a period of time where OnGame would only show you your opponent's hands (in the hand history not in the web replayer) if you won. When that happens we can't do the EV graph because it would show you as massively unlucky (you only see their cards and know the EV if you lose, if you win you don't know their cards and thus we can't calculate).

Either way they no longer appear to be hiding mucked cards in the hand history so once the next beta is released this functionality will be restored.

[paolino76]

New beta released, but it doesn't look to work properly...it shows you as overly lucky.
Ongame shows opponent cards when the All-In occurs before the river. If the All-In occurs at the river they don't show the losing hand in the hand history, but this shouldn't affect the EV Graph. With the new beta if you win an All-In on the river it gives you EV=0% instead of 100% of the pot!
So the resulting EV Graph is way too low...

[WhiteRider]

Please attach a hand history file with an example of this to a Support ticket and tell us the hand number so that we can check it out. The original hand history files will be in the PokerTracker 3\Processed folder by default.
If they do not show the losing cards for an all-in on the river then we will need to eliminate that situation from the calculations or it will introduce a bias (because calculating EV only when you lose will make you look unlucky overall).
Thanks.

[paolino76]

If they do not show the losing cards for an all-in on the river then we will need to eliminate that situation from the calculations or it will introduce a bias (because calculating EV only when you lose will make you look unlucky overall).

It really doesn't matter on the river: your EV is either 100% (you win) or 0% (you lose) with no more cards to come. You simply should let the EV graph follow the Amount Won graph, but it isn't like that now. Maybe that's because, not knowing the hole cards, PT calculates your winning percentage against a random hand.
It was working fine in version 3.10.

[WhiteRider]

Right - but if we don't know the opponent's cards then the all-in EV should not be being calculated, which means that it will only be calculated when you lose.
Please let us have an example hand so that we can check that the behaviour is correct, or correct it.

[paolino76]

Right - but if we don't know the opponent's cards then the all-in EV should not be being calculated,which means that it will only be calculated when you lose.

Not quite. We always know the hole cards when we need them to calculate the EV, i.e. before the River.
The only instance where we do not know the hole cards is when the All-In occurs at the River, but we don't need them: EV = Amount Won with no more cards to come.

Please let us have an example hand so that we can check that the behaviour is correct, or correct it.

I just sent you a ticket with a hand example. It looks like beta version for some reason gives you 0% instead of 100% of the pot when an All-In occurs at the River and opponent mucks...

If you simply do not calculate EV on the River everything will work fine.

[WhiteRider]

Thanks - we'll get back to you via your ticket.